posted 04-16-2008 04:45 PM            

Here's the article in case it goes down, but beware, it'll get your blood boiling (Be sure to read the last paragraph - if nothing else):

By Athima Chansanchai
MSNBC
updated 9:11 a.m. ET, Wed., April. 16, 2008


Athima Chansanchai


We all know people who lie. Sure, there are people who omit the truth, people who keep secrets. But how about those who don’t even blink when asked direct questions?

Employers and law enforcement use polygraphs as a screening tool, but now, if you have about $400 to spend, you can engage this service, too.

Anyone who’s ever watched a police/crime procedural TV show — such as “CSI” or “Law & Order” — is familiar with the idea. This is not new technology. It’s been around for more than a century.

Last week, MSNBC.com reported that the Pentagon will issue handheld lie detectors to U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan to screen local police officers, interpreters and allied forces for access to U.S. Military bases. The device may also be used in Iraq.

The debate about polygraphs' reliability is longstanding, and they're not allowed as evidence in most U.S. courts.

Stoelting is one of the major manufacturers of modern polygraphs. In 1935, it came out with the version of lie detectors that we know from earlier movies and TV. Among the other major players in the industry are Axciton, Lafayette and Limestone.

These analog versions were used up until the 1980s, when computerized versions theoretically made it nearly impossible to fool these instruments (do not call them machines; examiners hate that!).

John Grogan, a California-based certified and licensed polygraph examiner, has been detecting lies and verifying truths for more than two decades. He said the old polygraph system of chart paper and ink could be manipulated.

“You could play with it, put a thumb tack in your shoe and that messes with the old-fashioned system,” he said.

But in new versions, the body’s signals become converted into digital measurements, a scoring system that picks up immediately “when your blood pressure turns into a volcano. This is not a natural human reaction; it senses pain.”

Powered from USB port
Stoelting’s 8 Channel CPS II Computerized Polygraph System is a compact, but powerful device, that allows a trained examiner to do voice and audio recordings, to read a subject’s pulse, to gauge voice responses and the usual markers — all powered from a USB port connector to a computer.

Like Ben Stiller’s interrogation by future father-in-law Robert De Niro in “Meet the Parents,” the subject is hooked up to the device to measure reactions in four ways: blood pressure, skin conductance, lower breathing and upper breathing (stomach and chest).

The squiggly lines we’ve seen on TV and movies are still there, but now they’re hooked up to a laptop and software that analyzes microscopic reactions.

The red line still represents blood pressure, green is “sweat” which measures electricity through hands because “extremities become flushed when they lie,” Grogan said, and the “two wiggly blue lines at the top are upper and lower breathing.”

Typically, a 10-question script includes four questions about the problem or event and those pivotal queries are compared to six other “control” questions.

More than 'yes' or 'no'
In their reports, examiners describes the equipment used, the analysis of the body’s reactions, the questions asked (yes or no answers) and a run-down of confirmation that the subject was in normal health (with no external influences) at the time of the examination.
Stoelting Co.
A close-up of the Stoelting Co.'s polygraph instrument shows several channels which are used to record and measure skin response, abdominal respiration and blood volume, among other aspects of the exam.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But just because De Niro’s character did the test at home on his nervous son-in-law, don’t think you can do it yourself authoritatively. To do so, you need to pass the Polygraph Academy’s rigorous at-home course load.

If you have a lot of time on your hands — as in two or three extra hours a night for several weeks — to go through it, then you might find yourself in a lucrative career, as experienced examiners are hard to come by, Grogan said.

There are thousands of private investigators in California, for example, but less than 100 certified polygraph examiners, he said — and the demand is out there.

“Half the people that take these tests pass,” Grogan said. “A lot of people do it to prove their innocence. Nobody made them take it ...You can do good on some questions, bad on others.”

If you’re serious about hiring a polygraph examiner, check out the Polygraph Examiners of America and find a qualified examiner near you.

posted 04-16-2008 10:15 PM            

I looked up this journalist's email and sent her a follow up as copied below. Perhaps if more of us did so, and each and every time the species of snake Grogan pops up his head out of the ground too, then he would stop being a media source and embarresment to our profession. We do NOT even owe Grogan ANY courtesy and I treat him like the gutter rat he is. Some of you as perhaps not as salty as I am and a bit more polished, so I ask you to take five minutes and inform this reporter about Grogan that might motivate her toward a follow up piece. Somewhere, Sometime, Somehow; somebody will take us up on it.

posted 04-17-2008 12:53 AM         

That was one fine E-mail! I hope the reporter does not hide her shame and instead, does a HUGE follow up story!

Great Job Pat!

Ted

posted 04-17-2008 12:24 PM            

I have already heard back from the reporter Ms. Chansanchai and have copied the link below. I can further tell you that Jack from L.A. has written her and provided his contacts as well, and that we all need to have input with her so we don't miss any angle she might run with here. Five minutes from each of us writing her would be worth it's weight in gold for our profession. In speaking with each other, we are preaching to the choir, so when we reach out and inform others who have national exposure such as this reporter, we serve the needs and protection of this profession.

------------------------------------------
MY EMAIL LAST NIGHT FROM HER

From: "Chansanchai, Athima" To: "PATRICK T. COFFEY"
Subject: RE: Your Recent Polygraph Article !!!
Date: Apr 16, 2008 8:40 PM
Attachments: winmail.dat

Patrick,

Thank you for alerting me. I will definitely be in touch for a follow-up.

Athima
___________________________________________

MY SECOND EMAIL TODAY HOT OFF THE PRESSES !!
WE "ALL" HAVE TO CONTACT THIS REPORTER AND STEAR HER IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION !!!

From: Athima Chansanchai [Add to Address Book]
To: ptcoffey@mindspring.com
Subject: Grogan
Date: Apr 17, 2008 10:15 AM
Patrick,

I've actually felt ill, thinking I've been duped by this guy. What can you give me of evidence that he's a fraud?

So the basics of what he said, in terms of explaining what a polygraph, that IS true, right? It's just that he IS A fraud? What's
been your experience with him?

Athima

posted 04-17-2008 12:32 PM            

To answer your question with my best guess...Lisa Javoric is the 'official' person in the grogan institution and probably most legal documents such as business licenses, etc are in her name as she is the one with an active pi license. This is exactly how he is able to continue doing investigations. Even though he is clearly the 'head' of the operation, the BSIS told me that he is allowed to work under her license and there isn't much that can be done about that.

Anyway, you might try running your searches on lisa rather than John if you are looking for business structure info.

------------------
Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator

Be sure to visit our new store for all things Polygraph Related
http://store.polygraphplace.com

posted 04-17-2008 08:41 PM            

I have a complete copy of not only the judgment that I put in the original article, but the detailed complaint history as well. I will be scanning these tomorrow to make into a pdf for anyone to download if they need em.

------------------
Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator

Be sure to visit our new store for all things Polygraph Related
http://store.polygraphplace.com

posted 04-17-2008 09:33 PM         

Thanks guys

posted 04-18-2008 11:09 AM            

I ran his name, her name and the business names through the CA's website, and none are registered as a corporation, so I think he's on his own. In other words, it doesn't appear Grogan has protected himself by establishing any corporations. He is the PEOA and John Grogan and Associates it appears.

posted 04-18-2008 03:50 PM            

I got an email from the article's author asking if I'd field some questions, but she tracked down Pat in the meantime. The fact that she was in a hurry is important because she was under the gun to get something in, so watch for her follow up - soon.

Pat,

What kind of feel did you get?

posted 04-18-2008 07:23 PM            

She responded that they will amend the article.

r

------------------
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)

posted 04-19-2008 12:15 AM         

"How do you select an Examiner?"
"How much does a test cost?"

She is either real stupid or in a lot of trouble with her editor!

I gave her my contact phone numbers but got nothing back but the bland emails.

posted 04-19-2008 12:30 AM            

I think my brother might be the new chief of police in Moorpark, where it seem Grogan may reside.
http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2008/apr/18/moorpark-police-chief-introduced/

r

------------------
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)

posted 04-19-2008 08:18 PM         

Did you know that Moorpark spelled backwards is Kraproom? I grew up down that way so I know these important facts.

posted 04-20-2008 10:15 PM            

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114951/

I managed to get this reporter to change the story and do an abortion on Grogan. Once she got Ralph's first story link about him, downloaded the docs, and saw what a fraud he was, she decided to go with somebody a bit more bland with------ME !!

Ralph's latest story on Grogan was further sent to her ten minutes after it came out, and I feel we have a well balanced journalist in her who did the right thing. I think the most important point is that in ANY situation we can, we need to expose Grogan for the Fraud he is, and let those who spoke with him know that THEY are just another of his victims whom he used. This approach seems to work well as when you tell someone they are a victim they naturally want you to qualify that for them.

Let's all act quickly each and every time we see Grogan pending an appearance where we can inform that client about his documented past, or if he is used as a source we need to get ahold of that journalist or TV commentator member.
___________________________________________
ORIGINAL: Via Grogan

John Grogan, a California-based certified and licensed polygraph examiner, has been detecting lies and verifying truths for more than two decades. He said the old polygraph system of chart paper and ink could be manipulated.
“You could play with it, put a thumb tack in your shoe and that messes with the old-fashioned system,” he said.
But in new versions, the body’s signals become converted into digital measurements, a scoring system that picks up immediately “when your blood pressure turns into a volcano. This is not a natural human reaction; it senses pain.”
+
The squiggly lines we’ve seen on TV and movies are still there, but now they’re hooked up to a laptop and software that analyzes microscopic reactions.
The red line still represents blood pressure, green is “sweat” which measures electricity through hands because “extremities become flushed when they lie,” Grogan said, and the “two wiggly blue lines at the top are upper and lower breathing.”
Typically, a 10-question script includes four questions about the problem or event and those pivotal queries are compared to six other “control” questions.
More than 'yes' or 'no'
In their reports, examiners describes the equipment used, the analysis of the body’s reactions, the questions asked (yes or no answers) and a run-down of confirmation that the subject was in normal health (with no external influences) at the time of the examination.
* Also what was taken out was the Grogan recommendation for a referral to PEOA Examiners.

CHANGED / EDITED TO: Coffey version

The American Polygraph Association is one place to start if you're a private citizen looking for a polygraph for peace of mind.
Patrick Coffey, a California-based security consultant and computer polygraph examiner, and who specializes in pre-employment and internal affairs investigations experience in the private sector and law enforcement communities, has several tips for first-time consumers:
• Use only the services of a professional polygraph examiner who is a graduate of an American Polygraph Association-accredited school. Graduates of such schools have "usually completed an internship in a law enforcement agency or intelligence service, or a well-respected private sector company which services law enforcement agencies or the armored car service industry," he said.
• Make sure you are employing "a professional polygraph examiner who utilizes current state-of-the-art computer equipment with objective scoring algorithms," he said. The examiner "must know how to hand-score a chart the old-fashioned way, and the subsequent computer scores are always considered only afterward. This provides for both subjective and objective findings."
• "Never use someone who merely owns the equipment, but does not have the actual accredited education and internship experience, or who is not accepted among their professional peer group."